C.205 Veltro colors

[mholly]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/388572005891340
Please scroll down to a beautiful C.205 build by Mark Danko. I'm rather skeptical about the color scheme. 1/48 Third Group decal sheet information and references look a bit outdated to me. Regardless, your opinion please. Thanks,
Marian

[Editor]

I agree the model does not look right. On first glance I thought it was a C.202 in North Africa. The model is finished in what appears to be Giallo Mimetico 2 (yellow) with splotches of Verde Mimetico (the Serie Mimetica colors) and although early production C.202s were finished in the Serie Mimetica colors the C.205V was not. The decal instructions say however NC4 (brown) + VOS2 (dark Olive green 34052) + GAC1 (Tavola X colors). The camouflage scheme applied to the model is an early-Macchi C.202 scheme (CMPR C2B or D2/D2B Tavola X) but this scheme was not observed on the C.205V CMPR D3. The C.205V was constructed solely by Macchi although Fiat was brought in to increase production, it never completed its 150 C.205V Serie II, although again it would have been interesting to have seen how Fiat might have finished their C.205Vs (the camo scheme) had this batch been completed, probably similar to the G.55 D1A the so-called "lizard" scheme or more likely the Continental scheme - these planes almost certainly would not have been finished in the familiar smoke-rings that was only seen on Macchi-built planes (mid/late-C.202/C.205V) - there are cases of C.200s and CR.42 in D3 but were either late production C.200s or planes that were overhauled. Except for Serie VI machines, Macchi C.205V Serie I and III planes were finished in NC4+VOS2+GAC1 smoke-ring camo. In early-March 1944 the ANR began repainting its C.205Vs in Luftwaffe colors and camo (mottles) with traces of the early camo still present underneath the new paint, for instance masked-out MMs. The caption in the decal instructions indicate Rome 1943 so the decals are likely referring to the C.205Vs of 85a Sq., 18o Gr., 3o Stormo. There's a well-known photo of a pair of these planes with unit and individual codes on the rudder and smoke-ring camo - there's an example of one of these planes in STRM48008 Subject IV White 3 flown by m.llo. G. Fibbia (the funny thing is Mark has most of our decal sheets except this one which contains two Serie I machines). From MMs we know these planes were Serie III planes armed with 20mm canons except for one plane MM.9385 Serie I 11/8/43. The photo of 85a Sq. planes also show no unit badge on the fuselage and there are no records that indicate 70a Sq., 23o Gr., 3o St. was assigned the plane either - 3o Stormo only having received ten of these planes concentrated in 85a Sq. where its best pilots were, and tasked with defending Rome. Later on some 3o Stormo pilots flew the C.205V with ANR 2a Sq., 1o Gruppo in 1944 and these planes were Serie III machines and the unit badge was much smaller, painted on an Azzurro background (cloud) on the nose with no inverted triangle present as seen in North Africa. Red 4 is also oversized. A real shame, Mark did a wonderful job with construction (evidently he's a great modeler and I'd like to see his work on Stormo) but unfortunately this plane did not exist as depicted. I don't know what Third Group Decals used for a reference in 1996 (that was a long time ago and you're right, very much out of date) but my guess is that they had mistaken a C.202 in North Africa for an early C.205V, or probably they weren't aware of the photo of 3o Stormo C.205Vs at Cerveteri, they also didn't have info like MMs and extrapolated the camo seen by this unit in AS to the planes at Cerveteri in the summer of 1943. It should also be pointed out that the C.205V was not flown from North African bases, the closest it got was Pantelleria, the war having ended in North Africa by the time the C.205V appeared. I attached a photo of the model, a scan of Third Group decal instructions, a reference photo of the planes at Cerveteri and a profile of what the planes at Cerveteri looked like for those interested.





C.205Vs of 85a Sq., 18o Gr., 3o Stormo at Cerveteri, August 1943:


This is what 3o Stormo C.205Vs (Serie III) looked like at Cerveteri in August 1943:

[mholly]

Thanks a lot, much appreciated the complex response!
Marian

[Editor]

Marian, did you get my email responses for your order in Oct 2023?

I didn't want my reply to drag on like it did but the short answer to this post is that you're right, and also I should stress that Mark is a great modeler.

[mholly]

I believe I did.
Agreed, he's an excellent modeler but like so many just trusts the manufacturers with their information too much.
Maybe he's not aware of this site,?
Cheers

[Editor]

I got two messages from you and it appeared my replies weren't getting through. If you're expecting a message from us and your not seeing a reply in you inbox check your folders e.g., spam - email/ISP providers have different degrees of strictness on how they handle email addresses they don't recognize.

Mark has all but two of our decals sheets, sheet 48008 which would have helped him out on this project he doesn't have, regardless whether he uses our decals or not we would have happily helped out. I believe he's registered on this forum.

[dennismcc]

Thats a shame, what a beautiful build.

Cheers

Dennis