Greetings to all,
I see that the new Osprey book, 'Fiat CR32 Aces of the Spanish Civil War', is advertised on the Stormo website home page.
Would anyone care to venture an opinion on the centre illustrations by the renowned Mr. Caruana? Typical colour descriptions are sand yellow, reddish brown, ochre yellow and olive green. The reddish browns vary from both marrone shades to a vivid orange red. The olive greens range from a light shade to a dark shade.
As these shade descriptions bear little relation to accepted Regia Aeronautica paint colour norms, are we to deduce that they were painted locally with whatever colours were available, or has artistic licence merely come to the fore?
Having looked closely at as many black and white photographs of the period, as possible, I find it rather pretty well impossible to deduce with any certainty what particular colours and combinations were used on individual airframes.
Yours in confusion,
Aeroal.
Fiat CR32 Colours in the Spanish Civil War.
Aeroal, what Plate are you referring to? Most of the plate colors don't look right. The Serie Mimetica colors should apply to SCV machines - see Table 3 CMPR Color and Camouflage patterns.
http://www.stormomagazine.com/RegiaAero ... WII_3a.htm
The CR.32 at Vigna:
http://www.stormomagazine.com/Reference ... Valle.html
http://www.stormomagazine.com/RegiaAero ... WII_3a.htm
The CR.32 at Vigna:
http://www.stormomagazine.com/Reference ... Valle.html
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Stefano
- Generale di Brigata Aerea
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:40 pm
- Location: Padua, Italy
I agree with Vince that colour don't look right, but the truth is in the contrary: official RA camo in 1936 was aluminium overall. Italians (and Spanishes) soon realized on the field about the need of camouflaging the aircraft. I heard that available colours at time were Railway ones, here the application of vivid green and reddish brown (exactly the same happened in WWI when Ansaldo used the same hues to spot its SVA's fabric). I don't know about the origin of sand yellow. Then, those colours entered in official use in RA, as Verde Mimetico 1, Marrone Mimetico 2 and (?) Giallo Mimetico 1.
In the same year, RA was testing a band scheme, with green, brown, yellow and sometimes grey uppersurfaces. My opinion is that the purpose of it wasn't to hide the object in the environment, but to create a sort of optical disorientation to the foe. However, this pattern proved enough ineffective in operational use, and such aircraft were overpainted or sent to Balearics, where enemy threat was low.
In the meanwhile, aircraft began to arrive in Spain yet painted at the factory. New, and more suitable paints were added to RA palette, among them (dark) olive green, neutral brown, ochre yellow (a rather elusive colour that varied, according opinions, by an orange-brown yellow to a somewhat greenish yellow), always keeping the sand yellow that I rather consider closer to a yellowish grey.
Alfredo Logoluso is a careful researcher, highly reputed here in Italy. I trust in what he say, and I better consider here the captions than artworks. Rather, I think that some profiles of RJC could be not always precise (I mean at least some of those in Italian Aces of WWII). In particular, I have some perplexity on the orange band undernose in some profiles. It was the oil cooler case, which appeared often dark in b/w photos as it was left bare steel, either by replacement or due to heat that scrapped the paints.
Stefano
In the same year, RA was testing a band scheme, with green, brown, yellow and sometimes grey uppersurfaces. My opinion is that the purpose of it wasn't to hide the object in the environment, but to create a sort of optical disorientation to the foe. However, this pattern proved enough ineffective in operational use, and such aircraft were overpainted or sent to Balearics, where enemy threat was low.
In the meanwhile, aircraft began to arrive in Spain yet painted at the factory. New, and more suitable paints were added to RA palette, among them (dark) olive green, neutral brown, ochre yellow (a rather elusive colour that varied, according opinions, by an orange-brown yellow to a somewhat greenish yellow), always keeping the sand yellow that I rather consider closer to a yellowish grey.
Alfredo Logoluso is a careful researcher, highly reputed here in Italy. I trust in what he say, and I better consider here the captions than artworks. Rather, I think that some profiles of RJC could be not always precise (I mean at least some of those in Italian Aces of WWII). In particular, I have some perplexity on the orange band undernose in some profiles. It was the oil cooler case, which appeared often dark in b/w photos as it was left bare steel, either by replacement or due to heat that scrapped the paints.
Stefano
Fiat CR32 Colours in the Spanish Civil War.
Vince, Stefano,
Thankyou for your replies. I take it that the SCW colours were based on the RA range but there were considerable variations on certain colours in the field. The concensus seems to be that Mr. Caruana's illustrations are not quite authentic?
I was on holiday in Verona and Limone, Lago di Garda, last week, and tried to make it to the Museo Gianni Caproni in Trento. Sadly, I was defeated by the public transport system, which could only get me there in time for the museum closing for the long lunch break. Oh well, perhaps another time. I believe Volandia has just opened at Malpensa, and is well worth a visit, with approximately thirty airframes on display. I must try to get there some time as well.
Regards,
Aeroal.
Thankyou for your replies. I take it that the SCW colours were based on the RA range but there were considerable variations on certain colours in the field. The concensus seems to be that Mr. Caruana's illustrations are not quite authentic?
I was on holiday in Verona and Limone, Lago di Garda, last week, and tried to make it to the Museo Gianni Caproni in Trento. Sadly, I was defeated by the public transport system, which could only get me there in time for the museum closing for the long lunch break. Oh well, perhaps another time. I believe Volandia has just opened at Malpensa, and is well worth a visit, with approximately thirty airframes on display. I must try to get there some time as well.
Regards,
Aeroal.
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Stefano
- Generale di Brigata Aerea
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:40 pm
- Location: Padua, Italy
Re: Fiat CR32 Colours in the Spanish Civil War.
No, I don't mean this. He is a great artist, and very kind and polite as I contacted him many years ago. Just sometimes, like any of us, can make some mistake. Research is very time-expensive, and this doesn't always match with short times given by publishers. A few months ago a famous European artist asked me a help for a subject. After collecting material, I contacted him in less than a week, but it was too late! The publisher had given him a deadline of just a couple of days to make the artwork. So, it's possible RJC found himself in the same situation and hurriedly completed profiles without an accurate research. About Osprey no.34 profiles I can point that:Aeroal wrote:The concensus seems to be that Mr. Caruana's illustrations are not quite authentic?
#1 is speculative
#2 is speculative too; it had been reprised by Ali e Colori no.1, but there the caption warned that the code was an educated guess. Actually, no CR of that unit wore any code. Of course, not a fault to him, but an avice, as for #1, would have been welcome.
#7 the only picture of a 369-3 shows a Breda-built, large mottles, brand-new MC.200 with red individual code, no yellow on cowling nor Scarecrow badge (which indeed had a red polygon as a background). The profile is invented.
#13 Aldo Buvoli's aircraft has yet been discussed in this forum. Take a look.
#22 the camo in actual aircraft was reversed: NC4 spots on VOS2 background
So, never trust in profiles, just take a picture of your subject and study it carefully.
Stefano
P.S. Troubles with public transports? Welcome in Italy!
(as an Italian)Fiat CR32 Colours in the Spanish Civil War.
Stefano,
Thanks for your response. If there are the problems you list with the illustrations in Osprey No. 34, then it would seem sensible to treat the profiles in Osprey No. 94 with a measure of uncertainty and trust my own instincts, upon studying the actual photographs of the machines in question.
Kind regards,
Aeroal.
Thanks for your response. If there are the problems you list with the illustrations in Osprey No. 34, then it would seem sensible to treat the profiles in Osprey No. 94 with a measure of uncertainty and trust my own instincts, upon studying the actual photographs of the machines in question.
Kind regards,
Aeroal.
